1 00:00:03,803 --> 00:00:07,407 >> In a post Cold War world of shrinking space budgets, 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,611 NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California 3 00:00:11,644 --> 00:00:15,948 was challenged to reinvent itself. 4 00:00:15,981 --> 00:00:18,051 The lab's new assignment from NASA: 5 00:00:18,084 --> 00:00:24,690 land safely on Mars in a revolutionary new way. 6 00:00:24,723 --> 00:00:27,660 >> Mars is the hardest planet to land on, 7 00:00:27,693 --> 00:00:30,696 and I want you to do it cheaply. 8 00:00:30,729 --> 00:00:34,667 >> But could it be done? 9 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:38,604 And who was brave or foolish enough to sign up 10 00:00:38,637 --> 00:00:40,306 for such a risky mission? 11 00:00:40,339 --> 00:00:42,608 >> Nobody else wanted the job. 12 00:00:42,641 --> 00:00:44,377 They were afraid to death of it. 13 00:00:47,746 --> 00:00:51,150 The rest of the lab was going, "What are these guys doing?", 14 00:00:51,183 --> 00:00:52,452 because all they could see 15 00:00:52,485 --> 00:00:56,923 is the most embarrassing failure as possible. 16 00:00:56,956 --> 00:00:59,092 >> Added to the challenges was the addition 17 00:00:59,125 --> 00:01:02,028 of an unexpected passenger. 18 00:01:02,061 --> 00:01:03,830 >> Ugh, that silly little rover. 19 00:01:03,863 --> 00:01:06,733 It was not popular with anybody. 20 00:01:08,501 --> 00:01:09,836 >> "Command error?" 21 00:01:09,869 --> 00:01:11,104 What's going on now? 22 00:01:11,137 --> 00:01:12,171 What's broken now? 23 00:01:12,204 --> 00:01:13,606 This thing's falling apart on me. 24 00:01:13,639 --> 00:01:16,609 >> If you crash, you're going to crash and burn big time. 25 00:01:16,642 --> 00:01:18,544 >> You're not allowed to fail. 26 00:01:18,577 --> 00:01:20,680 Don't you dare fail. 27 00:01:20,713 --> 00:01:24,184 Do whatever you need to do, but don't fail. 28 00:01:43,569 --> 00:01:44,937 >> Thank you, everybody. 29 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:47,807 Here to JPL in Pasadena, California 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,376 for the twentieth anniversary of Mars Pathfinder, 31 00:01:50,409 --> 00:01:53,746 the mission that began what is now 32 00:01:53,779 --> 00:01:56,116 a continuous presence on Mars 33 00:01:56,515 --> 00:01:59,585 24/7 for twenty years. 34 00:01:59,618 --> 00:02:03,556 Now, to celebrate this achievement, we have with us 35 00:02:03,589 --> 00:02:06,192 some of the movers and shakers and doers 36 00:02:06,225 --> 00:02:08,561 who made Pathfinder possible. 37 00:02:08,594 --> 00:02:10,963 So if you will, hold your applause until after I've 38 00:02:10,996 --> 00:02:13,232 introduced them all. 39 00:02:13,265 --> 00:02:17,937 Here on my left is former NASA administrator and the longest 40 00:02:17,970 --> 00:02:21,274 serving NASA administrator, Dan Goldin. 41 00:02:21,307 --> 00:02:24,343 Former JPL Director, Ed Stone. 42 00:02:24,376 --> 00:02:27,580 Former JPL Director, Charles Elachi. 43 00:02:27,613 --> 00:02:31,684 And on this side, current Director, Mike Watkins. 44 00:02:31,717 --> 00:02:36,055 And two of the very most important folks that worked on 45 00:02:36,088 --> 00:02:38,891 the engineering side of Pathfinder, the doers that 46 00:02:38,924 --> 00:02:41,627 made it work, Jennifer Trosper and Brian Muirhead. 47 00:02:41,660 --> 00:02:46,666 Would you please give them a warm welcome? 48 00:02:46,699 --> 00:02:55,741 [Appause] 49 00:02:55,774 --> 00:02:58,711 That is indeed a warm welcome. 50 00:02:58,744 --> 00:03:00,379 So Mike, why don't you start us off. 51 00:03:00,412 --> 00:03:02,014 What is it about this place called Mars 52 00:03:02,047 --> 00:03:04,350 that's so special for people? 53 00:03:04,383 --> 00:03:08,087 >> I think Mars holds a special place in everyone's 54 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,655 heart because it looks a lot like the Earth. 55 00:03:09,688 --> 00:03:11,824 I mean, it looks like a place we could live, it looks like a 56 00:03:11,857 --> 00:03:15,428 place that we understand, and we could be at home on. 57 00:03:15,461 --> 00:03:18,130 And it begs the question of what was its history, and how 58 00:03:18,163 --> 00:03:20,733 did it get the way it is, and could there have been life 59 00:03:20,766 --> 00:03:22,435 there, could it have been habitable? 60 00:03:22,468 --> 00:03:25,004 And I think it goes back a long time, that people have 61 00:03:25,037 --> 00:03:27,773 wanted to answer those questions and to get there. 62 00:03:27,806 --> 00:03:34,347 And I believe that Pathfinder in particular, it helped us 63 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:36,983 understand a new way of exploring the planets. 64 00:03:37,016 --> 00:03:39,218 You know, you could argue that Viking as the first planetary 65 00:03:39,251 --> 00:03:43,122 lander sort of pioneered in situ science, but that was 66 00:03:43,155 --> 00:03:45,524 kind of a one-off mission. 67 00:03:45,557 --> 00:03:48,594 And I think Pathfinder showed us not only that mobility can 68 00:03:48,627 --> 00:03:52,098 be useful, but the notion of an ongoing interactive 69 00:03:52,131 --> 00:03:55,101 exploration of a planet, a voyage of discovery, a mission 70 00:03:55,134 --> 00:03:58,037 of discovery, of continuous discovery, is something that 71 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:59,739 we really learned from Pathfinder. 72 00:03:59,772 --> 00:04:02,875 And not only have we continued to extend that legacy, as you 73 00:04:02,908 --> 00:04:05,711 mentioned, for twenty years, on Mars with bigger and better 74 00:04:05,744 --> 00:04:09,015 rovers as we try to understand and unlock the mysteries of 75 00:04:09,048 --> 00:04:11,817 Mars and answer these questions, but it's a paradigm 76 00:04:11,850 --> 00:04:14,186 that we talk about using even for Europa now. 77 00:04:14,219 --> 00:04:16,856 We talk about "how do we do an interactive mission of 78 00:04:16,889 --> 00:04:18,658 discovery on other planets? 79 00:04:18,691 --> 00:04:19,892 On these ocean worlds? 80 00:04:19,926 --> 00:04:24,096 How can we emulate this Mars mission of discovery in other 81 00:04:24,129 --> 00:04:26,866 places that are just as fascinating as Mars?" 82 00:04:26,899 --> 00:04:30,803 >> Now, I'd like to set the stage now as we go back 83 00:04:30,836 --> 00:04:35,107 20 years to a very different time 84 00:04:35,140 --> 00:04:37,877 when a lot of change was happening. 85 00:04:37,910 --> 00:04:40,613 And I think this clip you're about to see 86 00:04:40,646 --> 00:04:44,250 will set it nicely for us. 87 00:04:44,917 --> 00:04:48,587 [Crowd chanting] 88 00:04:48,620 --> 00:04:52,225 >> In 1989, the Berlin Wall fell, 89 00:04:52,691 --> 00:04:55,161 [Crowd cheers] 90 00:04:55,194 --> 00:04:57,930 marking the beginning of the end of the Soviet Union, 91 00:04:58,964 --> 00:05:00,767 the end of the Cold War, 92 00:05:03,302 --> 00:05:06,038 and the beginning of a decade of shrinking budgets 93 00:05:06,071 --> 00:05:08,274 for America's space program. 94 00:05:11,009 --> 00:05:13,412 And "that meant major changes," 95 00:05:13,445 --> 00:05:17,249 declared the new head of NASA, Dan Goldin. 96 00:05:17,282 --> 00:05:19,352 >> It is scary. 97 00:05:19,718 --> 00:05:23,356 I can't promise that everything's gonna be okay. 98 00:05:23,789 --> 00:05:26,392 >> To the shock of many, Goldin predicted that 99 00:05:26,425 --> 00:05:29,762 the space agency's very survival was in doubt 100 00:05:29,795 --> 00:05:31,897 unless it embraced change. 101 00:05:31,930 --> 00:05:35,968 >> But I can promise that if we go for the survival mode, 102 00:05:36,001 --> 00:05:38,371 as an agency, in five years we're dead. 103 00:05:40,239 --> 00:05:43,142 So let me walk you through some of the issues... 104 00:05:43,175 --> 00:05:46,312 >> Goldin delivered the same message at JPL. 105 00:05:46,345 --> 00:05:48,280 >> We'll never ever go back. 106 00:05:48,313 --> 00:05:51,150 JPL will never ever look like it did. 107 00:05:51,183 --> 00:05:55,321 You will not build very many spacecraft that look like this. 108 00:05:56,855 --> 00:06:00,626 You've got to erase that from your mind. 109 00:06:00,659 --> 00:06:03,095 >> He wanted JPL to show how all of NASA 110 00:06:03,128 --> 00:06:04,797 could approach its work differently 111 00:06:04,830 --> 00:06:07,200 in the post Cold War world; 112 00:06:07,966 --> 00:06:12,705 a concept Goldin called, "Faster. Better. Cheaper." 113 00:06:13,605 --> 00:06:18,210 >> Part of his charge was in fact to oversee the transition 114 00:06:18,243 --> 00:06:21,313 of the agency to new direction, new scale missions 115 00:06:21,346 --> 00:06:23,282 and science in particular. 116 00:06:23,315 --> 00:06:27,186 >> The Jet Propulsion Lab is going to be the catalyst 117 00:06:27,219 --> 00:06:30,556 to change the whole NASA space program. 118 00:06:30,589 --> 00:06:33,259 >> So I was trying to understand exactly what kinds 119 00:06:33,292 --> 00:06:35,060 of things he was trying to promote, 120 00:06:35,093 --> 00:06:37,396 and how we could then make them real. 121 00:06:37,429 --> 00:06:39,398 Our job was to make them real. 122 00:06:39,431 --> 00:06:41,834 >> My words was I wanted to darken the skies 123 00:06:41,867 --> 00:06:44,804 with a lot of satellites and spacecraft, 124 00:06:44,837 --> 00:06:46,872 and I wanted the American people 125 00:06:46,905 --> 00:06:49,508 to share in the excitement. 126 00:06:49,541 --> 00:06:52,445 And the first thing they did was the Mars Pathfinder. 127 00:06:55,114 --> 00:06:53,880 Brilliant. 128 00:06:56,782 --> 00:07:02,221 >> So Dan, you came out here, and in some of those same talks, 129 00:07:02,254 --> 00:07:05,191 you talked about the change that was happening 130 00:07:05,224 --> 00:07:07,359 was at the speed of light. 131 00:07:07,392 --> 00:07:11,397 And you told a story about going to Russia and visiting 132 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:15,268 a facility, I wonder if you could tell that story. 133 00:07:16,134 --> 00:07:20,239 >> I was sitting in my office in early June, 134 00:07:20,272 --> 00:07:23,275 and I got a call from the Vice President, 135 00:07:23,308 --> 00:07:27,680 and he said, "I'd like you to show up at Blair House." 136 00:07:28,881 --> 00:07:33,752 I went to Blair House, and I walked in, and I saw 137 00:07:33,785 --> 00:07:37,957 Yuri Koptev, the head of the Russian Space Agency, 138 00:07:37,990 --> 00:07:40,359 standing outside. 139 00:07:40,392 --> 00:07:42,428 And I said, "Yuri, what's going on here? 140 00:07:42,461 --> 00:07:44,196 I don't know where I'm going." 141 00:07:44,229 --> 00:07:47,933 And he said, "Well, the head of the National Academy of 142 00:07:47,966 --> 00:07:51,003 Sciences of Russia wouldn't let me into the meeting." 143 00:07:51,036 --> 00:07:55,341 I walk in, and there is Boris Yeltsin sitting on the other 144 00:07:55,374 --> 00:07:59,645 side of the table, and a whole variety of people from the 145 00:07:59,678 --> 00:08:01,113 Russian space agency, 146 00:08:01,213 --> 00:08:03,782 and me. 147 00:08:03,815 --> 00:08:08,387 And I walked up to Boris Yeltsin through a translator 148 00:08:08,420 --> 00:08:11,924 and said, "My colleague, Yuri Koptev, 149 00:08:11,957 --> 00:08:14,360 is not allowed in the room." 150 00:08:14,393 --> 00:08:18,197 And the head of the National Academy of Sciences from Russia, 151 00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:22,434 he had flames coming out of his nostril. 152 00:08:22,467 --> 00:08:23,936 It was unbelievable. 153 00:08:23,969 --> 00:08:29,775 And, they asked Yuri to come in, and I was then working for 154 00:08:29,808 --> 00:08:34,580 President George H.W. Bush, Bush 41. 155 00:08:34,613 --> 00:08:39,385 And he was very concerned, as was President Clinton, as was 156 00:08:39,418 --> 00:08:44,557 Bush 43, about the Russian pride in their space program, 157 00:08:44,590 --> 00:08:47,359 and that their economy had crashed, 158 00:08:47,392 --> 00:08:50,696 which is why the Cold War ended. 159 00:08:50,729 --> 00:08:54,500 And he wanted me to bring our programs together, and I 160 00:08:54,533 --> 00:08:59,872 worked with Boris Yeltsin to come to Russia, and I knew I 161 00:08:59,905 --> 00:09:03,108 was going to be transferring funds to Russia to help them, 162 00:09:03,141 --> 00:09:08,414 so I asked him if he's take me into the SS18 factory, which I 163 00:09:08,447 --> 00:09:13,852 knew a lot about, and that's where they built the giant 164 00:09:13,885 --> 00:09:20,126 multiple warhead vehicle in Nepuputrusk at Uzniah. 165 00:09:21,026 --> 00:09:24,830 So he opened up the whole Russian space program to me, 166 00:09:24,863 --> 00:09:29,401 and it was weird because I'd went against Russia for 167 00:09:29,434 --> 00:09:32,638 twenty-five years, and I designed a lot of systems that 168 00:09:32,671 --> 00:09:33,772 I can't talk about, but... 169 00:09:33,806 --> 00:09:36,175 >> Some of them were targeting that same place, right? 170 00:09:36,208 --> 00:09:37,376 >> Hypothetically. 171 00:09:37,409 --> 00:09:41,714 [Laughter] 172 00:09:41,747 --> 00:09:45,050 >> And during your confirmation hearings, you 173 00:09:45,083 --> 00:09:49,655 went around, made your visits to various senators, and 174 00:09:49,688 --> 00:09:56,328 Senator Hollings painted a sort of dire picture of this 175 00:09:56,361 --> 00:09:58,163 job you were thinking about taking on. 176 00:09:58,196 --> 00:10:01,767 This is why you felt there had to be this sort of revolution, 177 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,768 did you not? 178 00:10:02,801 --> 00:10:05,170 >> Well, I'll tell you, I was pretty excited, 179 00:10:05,203 --> 00:10:08,007 but I knew it was problematic. 180 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,344 And I knew it was going to be really hard when I walked into 181 00:10:12,377 --> 00:10:15,414 the office of Senator Fritz Hollings, and he told me to 182 00:10:15,447 --> 00:10:18,484 sit down, and he drew a chart on the wall. 183 00:10:18,517 --> 00:10:23,188 And on the ordinate was billions of dollars and on the 184 00:10:23,221 --> 00:10:25,658 abscissa was years. 185 00:10:25,691 --> 00:10:30,362 So he started in 1992, and he drew a straight line up that 186 00:10:30,395 --> 00:10:32,798 went to 2002. 187 00:10:32,831 --> 00:10:36,869 And it started at 15 billion and it went to 25. 188 00:10:36,902 --> 00:10:41,974 And then, he went to 1992 at 15 billion, and drew a 189 00:10:42,007 --> 00:10:44,009 straight line across. 190 00:10:44,042 --> 00:10:46,979 And he said, "If you want to be confirmed, you're going to 191 00:10:47,012 --> 00:10:49,515 sign up to a no growth budget." 192 00:10:49,548 --> 00:10:52,518 I said, "But that's 50 billion dollars." 193 00:10:52,551 --> 00:10:53,519 He said, "You'll sign up to that 194 00:10:53,552 --> 00:10:55,154 or there'll be no space program, 195 00:10:55,187 --> 00:10:57,489 what do you want to do?" 196 00:10:57,522 --> 00:11:00,626 And then he went on to say, "The shuttle is grounded, 197 00:11:00,659 --> 00:11:02,628 it's got hydrogen leaks. 198 00:11:02,661 --> 00:11:06,365 The space station spent all their money and all their time. 199 00:11:06,398 --> 00:11:08,333 They have nothing. 200 00:11:08,366 --> 00:11:12,871 Galileo is deaf on its way to Jupiter. 201 00:11:12,904 --> 00:11:14,840 Hubble is blind. 202 00:11:14,873 --> 00:11:18,877 And the weather satellites are dead. 203 00:11:18,910 --> 00:11:22,648 Are you sure you want this job?" 204 00:11:22,681 --> 00:11:25,551 And I said, "You bet." 205 00:11:25,584 --> 00:11:32,091 I said, "Because money is not the magic ingredient, and that 206 00:11:32,124 --> 00:11:36,161 we need to re-invigorate the science and technology 207 00:11:36,194 --> 00:11:39,498 creativity of the NASA team. 208 00:11:39,531 --> 00:11:41,133 And they haven't been allowed to do that. 209 00:11:41,166 --> 00:11:42,901 I'm signing up." 210 00:11:42,934 --> 00:11:48,474 >> Ed, you had a similar sort of realization when you were 211 00:11:48,507 --> 00:11:49,575 coming into the job, and you went 212 00:11:49,608 --> 00:11:52,511 to visit Washington and OMB. 213 00:11:52,544 --> 00:11:55,547 And you had a stark realization too. 214 00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:56,815 >> That's right. 215 00:11:56,848 --> 00:11:59,318 When I agreed to be Director, it was the summer of 1990, and 216 00:11:59,351 --> 00:12:01,720 I started in January '91. 217 00:12:01,753 --> 00:12:04,490 The program was exactly as you described it, like that, it 218 00:12:04,523 --> 00:12:07,593 was going to double in basically a ten year period, 219 00:12:07,626 --> 00:12:09,528 and it was clear the job I had was 220 00:12:09,561 --> 00:12:12,097 how to handle all that growth. 221 00:12:12,130 --> 00:12:16,969 But, a visit to Washington taught me into early '91 222 00:12:17,002 --> 00:12:20,506 already that except for NASA, which still believed this was 223 00:12:20,539 --> 00:12:24,042 the future, the rest of the congress and the White House 224 00:12:24,075 --> 00:12:26,078 was saying, "that's the future." 225 00:12:26,111 --> 00:12:27,880 >> It was a crisis. 226 00:12:27,913 --> 00:12:32,050 >> And I know that you and Ed worked very closely on this, 227 00:12:32,083 --> 00:12:35,821 and Ed, you, when given this opportunity... 228 00:12:35,854 --> 00:12:38,624 >> We worked closely, but he executed. 229 00:12:38,657 --> 00:12:39,725 I gave directions. 230 00:12:39,758 --> 00:12:40,659 >> That's right. 231 00:12:40,692 --> 00:12:41,627 That's right. 232 00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:43,562 It was to make it real, as you said... 233 00:12:43,595 --> 00:12:45,030 >> Make it real, that's right. 234 00:12:45,063 --> 00:12:50,169 Three years to launch, less 150 million dollars. 235 00:12:50,202 --> 00:12:51,637 Land on Mars. 236 00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:54,006 150 million dollars. 237 00:12:54,039 --> 00:12:57,009 Now ahead of rover, which they added 25 for because, again, 238 00:12:57,042 --> 00:12:59,178 that was part of the advanced technology, but it was a 239 00:12:59,211 --> 00:13:02,247 challenge, clearly, it was a major challenge and a major 240 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,250 risk that the laboratory took to do this. 241 00:13:05,283 --> 00:13:09,454 But it really exposed the innovation that is possible. 242 00:13:09,487 --> 00:13:11,990 >> And we had to do something bold, it just couldn't be 243 00:13:12,023 --> 00:13:15,727 another orbiter, another this, another that. 244 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,166 It had to be really hard and when you compare what is cost 245 00:13:21,199 --> 00:13:23,769 for Viking, that was billions. 246 00:13:23,802 --> 00:13:25,771 Okay, now we're factor of 20 on cost, 247 00:13:25,804 --> 00:13:27,639 and factor of three on schedule 248 00:13:27,672 --> 00:13:31,877 with technology that they didn't have time to 249 00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:37,549 develop in advance, but again, it came down to we didn't have 250 00:13:37,582 --> 00:13:41,286 much that year, and we needed this to be successful. 251 00:13:41,319 --> 00:13:47,092 So I said, "Take risk, but don't fail." 252 00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:50,729 >> Let me talk about the background of how that was the 253 00:13:50,762 --> 00:13:55,267 background that Dan and Ed talked about. 254 00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,870 Remember Dan came in April '92. 255 00:13:57,903 --> 00:14:00,005 >> April 1st. 256 00:14:00,038 --> 00:14:03,675 >> Then in August '93, we lost Mars Observer. 257 00:14:03,708 --> 00:14:08,113 And I remember very clearly, a couple of weeks after that, 258 00:14:08,146 --> 00:14:10,515 I'm not sure if you remember, that I was at home. 259 00:14:10,548 --> 00:14:11,717 At that time I was the director for 260 00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:14,586 science, technology, and instruments. 261 00:14:14,619 --> 00:14:16,889 And I remember exactly where I was standing, 262 00:14:16,922 --> 00:14:19,825 I was watering the yard, it was on a weekend. 263 00:14:19,858 --> 00:14:21,026 And my wife comes and says, 264 00:14:21,059 --> 00:14:23,528 "Hey Wes Huntress is on the line." 265 00:14:23,561 --> 00:14:25,364 I wonder what this is about? 266 00:14:25,397 --> 00:14:26,832 So I walked then picked up the phone... 267 00:14:26,865 --> 00:14:31,303 Yes, he was head of the NASA science at that time... 268 00:14:31,336 --> 00:14:33,906 So he said, "Well, I just talked with Ed Stone, 269 00:14:33,939 --> 00:14:36,742 Dan Goldin would like you to chair a tiger team 270 00:14:36,775 --> 00:14:39,945 to look at small Mars missions. 271 00:14:39,978 --> 00:14:42,214 And you have only a couple of weeks to do that." 272 00:14:42,247 --> 00:14:46,318 Now, many of you heard about Dan Goldin and many of you 273 00:14:46,351 --> 00:14:49,554 know Dan Goldin, you never say no for Dan Goldin. 274 00:14:49,587 --> 00:14:52,090 When he asks for something, you say, "Yes, sir." 275 00:14:52,123 --> 00:14:55,727 So anyway, we formed a tiger team, which included JPLers 276 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,497 included external people, included [unintelligible]. 277 00:14:58,697 --> 00:15:00,766 Ed referred to the small spacecraft that the 278 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:04,369 military were developing. 279 00:15:04,402 --> 00:15:08,941 And we met in building 180-101 for over a few days and we 280 00:15:08,974 --> 00:15:11,543 came with a number of ideas, you know, collectively, one of them 281 00:15:11,576 --> 00:15:12,878 being a lander, 282 00:15:12,911 --> 00:15:15,180 and we transmitted that to headquarters. 283 00:15:15,213 --> 00:15:17,783 And of course Dan picked up the lander. 284 00:15:17,816 --> 00:15:20,652 It was no big surprise. 285 00:15:20,685 --> 00:15:23,522 But at that time there was no rover on it. 286 00:15:23,555 --> 00:15:28,427 So the focus was on how do we land with a low cost on Mars, 287 00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:29,995 and to do it in three years like Ed said. 288 00:15:30,028 --> 00:15:34,199 But then there was, in my office, a lady by the name of 289 00:15:34,232 --> 00:15:35,801 Donna Shirley. 290 00:15:35,834 --> 00:15:37,869 She was an engineer working on robotics. 291 00:15:37,902 --> 00:15:40,238 She comes to me and said, "You know, you remember that rover 292 00:15:40,271 --> 00:15:41,773 we showed you a few weeks ago? 293 00:15:41,806 --> 00:15:44,643 We think we can build that rover in time 294 00:15:44,676 --> 00:15:46,111 to put it on the mission." 295 00:15:46,144 --> 00:15:47,679 So of course I went to Tony Spear, 296 00:15:47,712 --> 00:15:49,247 and Tony said, "Look, 297 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,718 I have a deadline, I have a limited budget. 298 00:15:52,751 --> 00:15:55,120 Get the hell out of here." 299 00:15:55,153 --> 00:15:58,256 Well as you know me I don't take no for an answer. 300 00:15:58,289 --> 00:16:00,359 So I went to Wes Huntress. 301 00:16:00,392 --> 00:16:02,027 Wes was intrigued, but he said, 302 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:04,296 "I don't know where to get the money." 303 00:16:04,329 --> 00:16:06,531 So I went to Sam Vineri, who was at that time 304 00:16:06,564 --> 00:16:08,166 in charge of technology. 305 00:16:08,199 --> 00:16:10,168 So after a little while, Sam said, 306 00:16:10,201 --> 00:16:12,337 "I'll pay with the 25 million 307 00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:14,673 if you can get it on the mission." 308 00:16:14,706 --> 00:16:18,343 So I went back to Wes, and Wes told me, "Give me 25... 309 00:16:18,376 --> 00:16:20,078 >> Sam came to me. 310 00:16:20,111 --> 00:16:22,347 >> Yeah, well let me continue the story. 311 00:16:22,380 --> 00:16:24,916 So Wes told me, "Give me 24 hours" and I kind of guessed 312 00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:27,719 what he wanted the 24 hours for. 313 00:16:27,752 --> 00:16:31,323 So by the time I got here, Wes must have talked with you, 314 00:16:31,356 --> 00:16:33,492 Dan said this is a bold thing we want to do 315 00:16:33,525 --> 00:16:35,160 in addition to the landing, 316 00:16:35,193 --> 00:16:38,897 and that's how of course when Wes said "go ahead" 317 00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:40,465 and then Ed said "go ahead" 318 00:16:40,498 --> 00:16:43,101 and Tony Spear said "yes sir" move on that, 319 00:16:43,134 --> 00:16:46,071 and that's how the rover came about. 320 00:16:46,104 --> 00:16:49,641 And look at the legacy that rover have led to, 321 00:16:49,674 --> 00:16:54,379 to Spirit, Opportunity, Curiosity, and then Mars 2020. 322 00:16:54,412 --> 00:16:58,683 And that's the kind of small but visionary technology 323 00:16:58,716 --> 00:17:02,854 investment, that NASA and Dan was very well known for, 324 00:17:02,887 --> 00:17:07,025 which led us to do the great things that we do now. 325 00:17:07,058 --> 00:17:10,362 And in my mind, I'm sure all of you know how much I like 326 00:17:10,395 --> 00:17:13,131 the Mars helicopter that is being looked at 327 00:17:13,164 --> 00:17:14,866 for the Mars 2020. 328 00:17:14,899 --> 00:17:17,669 In my mind, that's exactly the same example. 329 00:17:17,702 --> 00:17:20,272 It's a bold technology experiment, 330 00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:22,941 high risk relatively speaking, 331 00:17:22,974 --> 00:17:25,010 but I'm sure you'll make it work. 332 00:17:25,043 --> 00:17:27,779 And I'll bet you 20 years from now people sitting here will be 333 00:17:27,812 --> 00:17:31,416 talking about airplanes and balloons and helicopters 334 00:17:31,449 --> 00:17:33,351 flying and exploring Mars. 335 00:17:33,384 --> 00:17:36,154 That's the kind of thing the kind of leadership that 336 00:17:36,187 --> 00:17:39,191 Dan provided at that time and then Ed, 337 00:17:39,224 --> 00:17:40,725 when he was the director, 338 00:17:40,758 --> 00:17:43,995 which really made the revolution you see today. 339 00:17:44,028 --> 00:17:47,799 So really, Pathfinder had the legacy not only in the landing 340 00:17:47,832 --> 00:17:51,703 and the airbags, but also in the rovers that you see today. 341 00:17:51,736 --> 00:17:54,439 >> In fact, let's look at the EDL, 342 00:17:54,472 --> 00:17:57,409 we have actually the very original, 343 00:17:57,442 --> 00:18:00,512 literally back-of-the-envelope designs, 344 00:18:00,545 --> 00:18:01,947 when this first came up. 345 00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:05,084 So if we could roll that clip, please. 346 00:18:07,118 --> 00:18:09,955 >> Some of the original ideas for an airbag landing 347 00:18:09,988 --> 00:18:13,758 were these back-of-the-envelope sketches. 348 00:18:13,791 --> 00:18:17,095 As the plan envisioned, Pathfinder dives into the 349 00:18:17,128 --> 00:18:21,566 Martian atmosphere at 16,000 mph. 350 00:18:21,599 --> 00:18:25,003 Protected by its heat shield, the spacecraft burns through 351 00:18:25,036 --> 00:18:30,642 the Martian atmosphere, reducing its speed to 900 mph. 352 00:18:30,675 --> 00:18:33,512 Next, a parachute is deployed. 353 00:18:33,545 --> 00:18:36,815 Then the heat shield and back shell are jettisoned 354 00:18:36,848 --> 00:18:40,552 and a rope drops to detect the ground. 355 00:18:40,585 --> 00:18:42,621 The airbags inflate. 356 00:18:42,654 --> 00:18:46,925 Seconds later, the lander hits the surface at 50 mph, 357 00:18:46,958 --> 00:18:49,828 bouncing stories high. 358 00:18:49,861 --> 00:18:55,267 After the lander finally comes to rest, the airbags deflate, 359 00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,603 and an antenna rises up, transmitting back to earth the 360 00:18:58,636 --> 00:19:04,877 news that the lander is somehow still in one piece. 361 00:19:05,543 --> 00:19:07,479 >> Brian Muirhead... 362 00:19:07,512 --> 00:19:08,647 >> Piece of cake, Brian. 363 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:09,514 >> That's right. 364 00:19:09,547 --> 00:19:10,748 >> That's what I was going to say. 365 00:19:10,782 --> 00:19:14,386 >> How did you feel about this mission when you took it on? 366 00:19:14,419 --> 00:19:17,455 >> Well it's interesting, I was in a really nice job 367 00:19:17,488 --> 00:19:19,524 at that time, I was a section manager, 368 00:19:19,557 --> 00:19:23,028 and I ended up talking to Charles Elachi about well, 369 00:19:23,061 --> 00:19:24,729 this is a pretty crazy mission, 370 00:19:24,762 --> 00:19:25,997 it's not clear it's going to get funded, 371 00:19:26,030 --> 00:19:27,265 what should I do? 372 00:19:27,298 --> 00:19:29,067 He said, "Well, just stay where you are for a minute, 373 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:31,236 a little while longer, and let's see what happens to the budget." 374 00:19:31,269 --> 00:19:38,143 When the budget came through, then I jumped to Tony's call, 375 00:19:38,176 --> 00:19:41,846 and from that point on, it was my job to staff the team 376 00:19:41,879 --> 00:19:47,352 that would design, build, test, and operate this spacecraft. 377 00:19:47,385 --> 00:19:50,021 >> And there were a lot of challenges, what would you say 378 00:19:50,054 --> 00:19:53,625 was the one that kept you up the most at night? 379 00:19:53,658 --> 00:19:56,061 >> It has to be, if you're going to Mars, it's always 380 00:19:56,094 --> 00:19:57,329 entry, decent and landing. 381 00:19:57,362 --> 00:19:58,897 That's what you worry about. 382 00:19:58,930 --> 00:20:03,735 And of course, for us, we had to invent and reinvent pieces 383 00:20:03,768 --> 00:20:06,104 of the entry, decent and landing system. 384 00:20:06,137 --> 00:20:08,907 The biggest invention, of course, was the airbags. 385 00:20:08,940 --> 00:20:13,178 And that was something that when we started out, 386 00:20:13,211 --> 00:20:14,846 we did what normal engineers do. 387 00:20:14,879 --> 00:20:17,182 We'd bring out our, onboard our computers, 388 00:20:17,215 --> 00:20:18,583 and we model things. 389 00:20:18,616 --> 00:20:20,819 >> And we have a clip that will give some sense of that, 390 00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:23,155 as well, if we could roll that one. 391 00:20:24,188 --> 00:20:26,157 >> This is the surface of the atmosphere. 392 00:20:26,190 --> 00:20:27,926 We're coming in and we have to... 393 00:20:27,959 --> 00:20:30,262 >> I had never been a flight system manager. 394 00:20:30,295 --> 00:20:33,331 I had delivered sizeable things at the lab, 395 00:20:33,364 --> 00:20:37,302 but nothing like the flight system of a spacecraft. 396 00:20:39,070 --> 00:20:43,341 The people that came around me on the flight-system team, 397 00:20:43,374 --> 00:20:49,814 we kind of accreted a team of radical kind-of thinkers. 398 00:20:49,847 --> 00:20:53,385 >> Muirhead was open to new ideas, but they had to be 399 00:20:53,418 --> 00:20:57,389 subjected to tried and true methods of proof. 400 00:20:57,422 --> 00:21:02,628 >> which is build it, test it, break it, fix it, do it again. 401 00:21:03,161 --> 00:21:06,831 >> But not everything could be fully tested. 402 00:21:06,864 --> 00:21:10,468 >> I was very scared of the parachute, I've got to tell you. 403 00:21:10,501 --> 00:21:13,271 Mostly that parachute was the one thing we couldn't test 404 00:21:13,304 --> 00:21:16,408 in any realistic way. 405 00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:19,311 >> Assuming the parachute worked, the next challenge 406 00:21:19,344 --> 00:21:21,813 was knowing when to inflate the airbags. 407 00:21:21,846 --> 00:21:24,383 Just seconds before hitting the ground. 408 00:21:25,983 --> 00:21:29,154 The original idea of hanging a rope with a sensor at the bottom 409 00:21:29,187 --> 00:21:32,658 proved unworkable, so radar was added, 410 00:21:33,024 --> 00:21:36,027 but that solution raised new problems. 411 00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:38,229 >> The devil's in the details. 412 00:21:38,262 --> 00:21:40,632 That's where I got into the picture, 413 00:21:40,665 --> 00:21:42,334 was in the devil's in the details. 414 00:21:42,367 --> 00:21:45,670 Like for example, in some of the drop tests, we do drop tests 415 00:21:45,703 --> 00:21:48,039 on parachutes and their radar was dropping and taking 416 00:21:48,072 --> 00:21:50,842 measurements, and it was swinging like you would 417 00:21:50,875 --> 00:21:52,911 imagine that it would be swinging and then we realized 418 00:21:52,944 --> 00:21:55,080 that when the radar, when it loses lock, 419 00:21:55,113 --> 00:21:59,017 it has all these horrible altitude measurements. 420 00:21:59,050 --> 00:22:01,252 The radar tells you these are good measurements, 421 00:22:01,285 --> 00:22:03,488 but they are really bad. 422 00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:07,326 >> Release the item. 423 00:22:08,192 --> 00:22:11,730 >> To increase the chance of a safe landing, rockets were 424 00:22:11,763 --> 00:22:15,467 added in hopes of further slowing down the lander. 425 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,536 [small rockets fire] 426 00:22:17,668 --> 00:22:21,807 [cheering] 427 00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:25,711 >> So there was a set of steps we went through where 428 00:22:25,977 --> 00:22:28,747 smart people thought about how to make it more reliable, 429 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:30,648 but it just kind of added more to the 430 00:22:30,681 --> 00:22:32,283 "here's something that goes into this basket, 431 00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:34,085 and then that basket dumps into this tray" 432 00:22:34,118 --> 00:22:35,520 I mean so it really gives you that 433 00:22:35,553 --> 00:22:37,055 Rube Goldberg sort of a feeling. 434 00:22:37,488 --> 00:22:38,923 [pounding] 435 00:22:38,956 --> 00:22:41,393 >> Then there were the airbags. 436 00:22:41,426 --> 00:22:42,227 >> Here we go. 437 00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:43,561 Rolling. 438 00:22:43,594 --> 00:22:46,398 It's going the wrong way! 439 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:51,669 >> I remember working with Sandia. 440 00:22:51,702 --> 00:22:54,406 We used, they had the most powerful computer in the world 441 00:22:54,439 --> 00:22:57,308 at that time, and we brought it to its knees 442 00:22:57,341 --> 00:22:59,711 trying to simulate this airbag. 443 00:23:00,845 --> 00:23:04,015 >> In the early 1990s, computer processing capabilities 444 00:23:04,048 --> 00:23:06,551 was just getting good enough that we could 445 00:23:06,584 --> 00:23:08,586 imagine really bringing all of these 446 00:23:08,619 --> 00:23:10,489 simulation programs together, 447 00:23:11,255 --> 00:23:12,891 but there were certain parts of it, 448 00:23:12,924 --> 00:23:17,028 we came to realize, you really couldn't treat very well 449 00:23:17,061 --> 00:23:18,930 with a computer simulation. 450 00:23:19,464 --> 00:23:23,201 The airbags being by far the way the foremost example. 451 00:23:25,636 --> 00:23:28,406 >> I would guess that we didn't understand 90% 452 00:23:28,439 --> 00:23:31,076 of the fundamental physics that goes into the airbag. 453 00:23:33,244 --> 00:23:36,948 I would also argue that we did not understand 454 00:23:36,981 --> 00:23:39,651 50% at the end of Pathfinder. 455 00:23:39,751 --> 00:23:41,453 [laughter] 456 00:23:42,420 --> 00:23:46,825 >> So, as if you didn't have enough problems already, 457 00:23:46,858 --> 00:23:49,627 you had a budget problem, and a schedule problem, 458 00:23:49,660 --> 00:23:52,263 and an engineering problem. 459 00:23:52,296 --> 00:23:55,099 >> One of the biggest engineering problems was mass, 460 00:23:55,132 --> 00:23:56,968 managing the mass. 461 00:23:57,001 --> 00:24:00,505 And one of the things we learned very early on is 462 00:24:00,538 --> 00:24:03,975 it's not what we can launch, it's what we can enter. 463 00:24:04,008 --> 00:24:07,378 And so the limit on what we felt we could enter was driven 464 00:24:07,411 --> 00:24:11,616 by a ballistic coefficient, and that's driven by the mass 465 00:24:11,649 --> 00:24:14,018 and the drag of the vehicle. 466 00:24:14,051 --> 00:24:18,189 So, part of my job as flight system manager, I took on, was 467 00:24:18,222 --> 00:24:24,028 to manage the mass, and so every gram we were sensitive to, 468 00:24:24,061 --> 00:24:25,864 and we had to be very careful about. 469 00:24:25,897 --> 00:24:29,734 And I know the rover team remembers this, but I was 470 00:24:29,767 --> 00:24:33,505 always threatening the rover team, Bill Layman sitting here, 471 00:24:33,538 --> 00:24:35,807 with, "if you blow your mass number, 472 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,243 I'm throwing you off the spacecraft." 473 00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:41,246 And I meant it, and they believed me. 474 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:44,249 And one of the things that I learned from that experience, 475 00:24:44,282 --> 00:24:46,618 and what this place does so well, when you hand them 476 00:24:46,651 --> 00:24:48,219 what looks to be an impossible job, 477 00:24:48,252 --> 00:24:51,923 with impossible constraints, they get very creative. 478 00:24:51,956 --> 00:24:54,826 And they found the solutions to stay within the mass, 479 00:24:54,859 --> 00:24:57,061 to add ramps and still stay within the mass. 480 00:24:57,094 --> 00:25:01,432 So it was a wonderful example of how creative people can be 481 00:25:01,465 --> 00:25:03,234 when you give them a tough job, 482 00:25:03,267 --> 00:25:06,771 and then give them the freedom, the flexibility, 483 00:25:06,804 --> 00:25:08,973 to be creative about how they do it. 484 00:25:09,006 --> 00:25:12,010 >> So you solved the technical problems, 485 00:25:12,043 --> 00:25:15,146 you launched on time, you launched... 486 00:25:15,179 --> 00:25:16,047 >> On budget. 487 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,616 >> Which was probably one of the more 488 00:25:18,649 --> 00:25:20,084 important aspects of this. 489 00:25:20,117 --> 00:25:21,119 >> Well we believed... 490 00:25:21,152 --> 00:25:22,620 >> They had become the poster child for 491 00:25:22,653 --> 00:25:23,855 "Faster. Better. Cheaper." 492 00:25:23,888 --> 00:25:26,291 >> We really believed that if we blew the budget, 493 00:25:26,324 --> 00:25:27,692 we'd be canceled. 494 00:25:27,725 --> 00:25:28,726 And everybody on ... 495 00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:30,128 >> Yes. 496 00:25:30,161 --> 00:25:31,963 [Laughter] 497 00:25:31,996 --> 00:25:33,464 >> We believed you, Mr. Goldin. 498 00:25:33,497 --> 00:25:35,266 And there were times when the bean counters, 499 00:25:35,299 --> 00:25:38,536 the budget guys, were projecting my budget 500 00:25:38,569 --> 00:25:40,805 to go as badly as my mass was going. 501 00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:44,242 So we were at risk, but one of the things that was wonderful 502 00:25:44,275 --> 00:25:47,245 about our review board, we had Jim Martin, 503 00:25:47,278 --> 00:25:50,615 the Viking project manager, was our review board chairman. 504 00:25:50,648 --> 00:25:52,817 And when Jim spoke, people listened. 505 00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:55,186 And so, Jim would look at the bean counters' estimate, 506 00:25:55,219 --> 00:25:58,256 and he would say, "I can't prove they won't make it, 507 00:25:58,289 --> 00:26:00,592 so then I'll let them keep going." 508 00:26:00,625 --> 00:26:03,494 And he would call back to headquarters and say, 509 00:26:03,527 --> 00:26:07,532 I think, "Don't kill 'em." 510 00:26:07,565 --> 00:26:09,233 [laughter] 511 00:26:09,266 --> 00:26:12,170 >> The Viking being 20 years before, the Viking coming out 512 00:26:12,203 --> 00:26:14,138 of Langley, being managed there, 513 00:26:14,171 --> 00:26:18,776 another contribution by another NASA center in all of this. 514 00:26:18,809 --> 00:26:24,849 So you launched, and seven months later, we were at 515 00:26:24,882 --> 00:26:28,519 entry, descent and landing on July the fourth, a morning, 516 00:26:28,552 --> 00:26:31,056 and let's see what that was like. 517 00:26:33,290 --> 00:26:35,226 >> This is the Mars Pathfinder flight director, 518 00:26:35,259 --> 00:26:38,997 we are currently approximately 15 minutes away 519 00:26:39,030 --> 00:26:40,832 from cruise stage separation, 520 00:26:40,865 --> 00:26:43,167 all telemetry continues to look nominal. 521 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,571 >> EDL comm reports spacecraft ranging channel off event. 522 00:26:53,477 --> 00:26:56,681 EDL telecom reports cruise stage separation. 523 00:26:56,714 --> 00:26:59,050 >> Alright, this is the Mars Pathfinder flight director, 524 00:26:59,083 --> 00:27:03,088 we have confirmed that cruise stage separation has occurred. 525 00:27:03,188 --> 00:27:04,355 [clapping] 526 00:27:04,388 --> 00:27:06,491 Alright we will now pass EDL operations 527 00:27:06,524 --> 00:27:08,059 to our chief engineer, 528 00:27:08,092 --> 00:27:10,161 and entry, decent and landing lead Rob Manning, 529 00:27:10,194 --> 00:27:12,630 who will report the real-time EDL status. 530 00:27:12,663 --> 00:27:14,599 >> Really, there's these few minutes where 531 00:27:14,632 --> 00:27:17,769 everybody wants to know what's happening, and you just don't. 532 00:27:19,103 --> 00:27:22,407 It's scary and at the same time, it's exciting as hell. 533 00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:26,344 >> The spacecraft now is about 7500 kilometers 534 00:27:26,377 --> 00:27:28,579 above the surface of Mars. 535 00:27:28,612 --> 00:27:33,218 It's still traveling at about 7.4 kilometers per second. 536 00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:37,589 Very fast. 537 00:27:39,290 --> 00:27:41,626 >> We were all apprehensive. 538 00:27:41,659 --> 00:27:44,295 There were so many things that could have gone wrong, 539 00:27:44,328 --> 00:27:46,731 and everything had to go right. 540 00:27:48,999 --> 00:27:51,102 >> 30 seconds till entry. 541 00:27:52,670 --> 00:27:56,174 Spacecraft is now slowing down very rapidly. 542 00:28:02,780 --> 00:28:04,248 We expect that the parachute will deploy 543 00:28:04,281 --> 00:28:06,284 in about 15 seconds. 544 00:28:08,385 --> 00:28:10,422 [wind rustling] 545 00:28:13,157 --> 00:28:14,926 Parachute has now deployed. 546 00:28:15,026 --> 00:28:16,394 [clapping] 547 00:28:16,494 --> 00:28:21,032 [wind] 548 00:28:21,665 --> 00:28:23,001 [thud] 549 00:28:25,102 --> 00:28:26,037 [metallic clank] 550 00:28:27,304 --> 00:28:29,741 Lander separation should have have occurred right about now. 551 00:28:32,943 --> 00:28:34,446 Airbags should be inflated. 552 00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:35,613 [boom] 553 00:28:40,184 --> 00:28:41,886 [rockets fire] 554 00:28:43,921 --> 00:28:45,256 [impact] 555 00:28:49,527 --> 00:28:51,930 [multiple impacts] 556 00:28:52,329 --> 00:28:54,632 >> EDL Comm, a weak signal 557 00:28:54,665 --> 00:28:56,768 is coming in and out of the spectrum. 558 00:28:56,801 --> 00:28:57,469 >> Yes. 559 00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:58,136 >> Roger that. 560 00:28:58,402 --> 00:28:59,604 >> Yes! 561 00:28:59,637 --> 00:29:02,206 [air deflating] 562 00:29:02,239 --> 00:29:05,710 [dramatic music] 563 00:29:25,362 --> 00:29:28,900 [motor winding] 564 00:29:35,773 --> 00:29:38,543 >> What a moment 565 00:29:38,576 --> 00:29:41,179 Jennifer, take us there, what happened then? 566 00:29:41,212 --> 00:29:43,114 What happened at that point? 567 00:29:43,147 --> 00:29:47,185 >> Well it was crazy exciting, because everybody was 568 00:29:47,218 --> 00:29:50,087 screaming and jumping around, and I actually think, 569 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,925 I remember we got a call from JSC, somebody passed along 570 00:29:53,958 --> 00:29:56,861 that they weren't happy with the demeanor of the operations 571 00:29:56,894 --> 00:29:59,697 people, and that we needed to kind of take it easy and 572 00:29:59,730 --> 00:30:04,068 be more controlled in the Mission Support Area. 573 00:30:05,335 --> 00:30:08,639 But my job was, after landing, I was the flight director for 574 00:30:08,672 --> 00:30:13,477 the team of folks who had to do the interactive deployments 575 00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:16,347 and things we needed to do to get the rover off the lander. 576 00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:21,085 So one of the first things we did is we had to deploy 577 00:30:21,118 --> 00:30:25,823 the camera mast so that the camera could look for the sun, 578 00:30:25,856 --> 00:30:29,193 and then based on where the sun was, we could figure out where 579 00:30:29,226 --> 00:30:31,195 the earth was and then point the high gain antenna 580 00:30:31,228 --> 00:30:35,032 towards the earth, and then take and send down those very first 581 00:30:35,065 --> 00:30:38,736 images of Mars, which are the picture of the rover 582 00:30:38,769 --> 00:30:42,173 on the petal in its hunched down position. 583 00:30:42,206 --> 00:30:45,843 And so, I had a procedure, we were very well practiced, we'd 584 00:30:45,876 --> 00:30:49,013 done a lot of tests that had gone very poorly, 585 00:30:49,046 --> 00:30:52,917 so we had a lot of experience, a lot of contingency plans 586 00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:55,086 based on things not going so well to date 587 00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:57,622 for those kinds of tests. 588 00:30:57,655 --> 00:30:59,690 And the reason, you know, one of the things about doing 589 00:30:59,723 --> 00:31:02,860 tests like that is not only are you trying to figure out 590 00:31:02,893 --> 00:31:05,763 how to do the operations on Mars, you're actually also 591 00:31:05,796 --> 00:31:07,832 trying to simulate the universe. 592 00:31:07,865 --> 00:31:10,401 And that's the hard part of those tests, where you have to 593 00:31:10,434 --> 00:31:12,904 get the sun position right, and Mars position right, and 594 00:31:12,937 --> 00:31:15,773 all that, and so those tests were always a lot more 595 00:31:15,806 --> 00:31:17,975 complicated than actual operations, 596 00:31:18,008 --> 00:31:19,343 which is a good thing. 597 00:31:19,376 --> 00:31:22,847 So initially, the very first thing we wanted to do was get 598 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:28,119 those images down to see what the landing site looked like 599 00:31:28,152 --> 00:31:29,887 and the rover on the petal. 600 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,722 And I remember getting those images down, and we were 601 00:31:31,755 --> 00:31:33,357 printing them out on printers, right? 602 00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:34,491 That's where we were at. 603 00:31:34,525 --> 00:31:38,195 Actually the very first images, I think somebody had a 604 00:31:38,228 --> 00:31:42,733 30-day trial membership of a piece of software that they 605 00:31:42,766 --> 00:31:45,336 were watching on one of the computer screens, and so 606 00:31:45,369 --> 00:31:48,306 everybody was going around their computer screen because 607 00:31:48,339 --> 00:31:50,441 they and sort of siphoned the images 608 00:31:50,474 --> 00:31:52,543 off of the image pipeline, 609 00:31:52,576 --> 00:31:55,179 and we saw these images of this landing site. 610 00:31:55,212 --> 00:31:59,350 And I remember the next day was the day we drove the rover 611 00:31:59,383 --> 00:32:01,652 off the lander, but I remember driving home that night with 612 00:32:01,685 --> 00:32:07,525 that picture of the rover on that surface of Mars that was 613 00:32:07,558 --> 00:32:10,895 taken by that camera that Peter designed to look like a 614 00:32:10,928 --> 00:32:16,567 person looking out there, and I just thought, "How on earth, 615 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,473 are we, does a farm girl from Ohio, grow up to be involved 616 00:32:22,506 --> 00:32:25,343 in something where we are looking at another world?" 617 00:32:25,376 --> 00:32:27,311 I mean we are the eyes into this other world. 618 00:32:27,344 --> 00:32:30,881 And it was overwhelming, it was fun, and then the next day 619 00:32:30,914 --> 00:32:34,118 we came back, and we got the rover to drive off the lander, 620 00:32:34,151 --> 00:32:37,421 and then the public got so engaged. 621 00:32:37,454 --> 00:32:39,390 And it was just a great experience. 622 00:32:39,423 --> 00:32:40,391 >> I want to talk about the... 623 00:32:40,424 --> 00:32:41,192 >> Can I jump in here? 624 00:32:41,225 --> 00:32:43,861 Because the public being engaged... 625 00:32:43,894 --> 00:32:49,700 the internet was just coming of itself and although it 626 00:32:49,733 --> 00:32:55,506 isn't recognized, JPL was a pioneer in the huge 627 00:32:55,539 --> 00:32:58,542 overload that was on the internet. 628 00:32:58,575 --> 00:33:02,346 They thought about it in advance, the work got done, 629 00:33:02,379 --> 00:33:06,283 and I don't know if the world knows what an incredible 630 00:33:06,316 --> 00:33:10,354 communications job and computer job that they did. 631 00:33:10,387 --> 00:33:15,126 It was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal, which led to the 632 00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:20,631 public being involved in such a large, exciting experience. 633 00:33:20,664 --> 00:33:22,967 >> If you think about it, it's a bit like today with 634 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,702 social media being so important, 635 00:33:24,735 --> 00:33:28,205 and that was a pioneering moment in the use of the internet 636 00:33:28,238 --> 00:33:30,174 and communicating about the space program. 637 00:33:30,274 --> 00:33:31,642 >> We were rather primitive, though. 638 00:33:31,675 --> 00:33:35,346 We mirrored sites around the world where we sent the data, 639 00:33:35,379 --> 00:33:37,882 so we wouldn't swamp out the JPL servers. 640 00:33:37,915 --> 00:33:41,118 So that allowed us to get the data out around the world. 641 00:33:41,151 --> 00:33:42,787 >> But that wasn't primitive, it was genius! 642 00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:44,989 [laughter] 643 00:33:45,022 --> 00:33:49,994 >> A number I remember, 670 million hits over a 644 00:33:50,260 --> 00:33:53,431 three month period, or something like that... 645 00:33:55,066 --> 00:33:54,265 >> It was the biggest thing. 646 00:33:55,099 --> 00:33:56,000 Today, that's trivial. 647 00:33:56,033 --> 00:33:57,468 >> It was huge at that time. 648 00:33:57,501 --> 00:33:58,669 >> At that time, it was huge. 649 00:33:58,702 --> 00:34:00,805 And that's because all the server companies were happy to 650 00:34:00,838 --> 00:34:04,508 have access. I mean this was helping them create 651 00:34:04,541 --> 00:34:07,912 the market for the internet, so in that sense, 652 00:34:07,945 --> 00:34:10,948 it really stimulated that whole area. 653 00:34:10,981 --> 00:34:14,452 >> So there was creativity just across the whole basis. 654 00:34:14,485 --> 00:34:17,688 >> Now I can't let this opportunity go by, Jennifer, 655 00:34:17,721 --> 00:34:20,024 without telling this, at least one of the couple of stories 656 00:34:20,057 --> 00:34:23,661 you've told me about your interaction with Dan that day. 657 00:34:23,694 --> 00:34:29,066 As if you didn't have enough to worry about as flight director. 658 00:34:29,099 --> 00:34:32,069 Can you at least tell one of those two stories? 659 00:34:32,102 --> 00:34:34,805 >> Okay, I'll tell the... 660 00:34:34,838 --> 00:34:37,908 So, as things were crazy in the Mission Support Area, and 661 00:34:37,941 --> 00:34:40,711 people were jumping up and down and looking at the images, 662 00:34:40,744 --> 00:34:43,681 and we tried to maintain some level of control, 663 00:34:43,714 --> 00:34:46,016 but then we lost all control and everybody was 664 00:34:46,049 --> 00:34:47,985 packed into this tiny little room. 665 00:34:48,018 --> 00:34:49,820 And people hanging over the chairs 666 00:34:49,853 --> 00:34:51,288 and looking at the images. 667 00:34:51,321 --> 00:34:55,559 And I had a procedure that I was supposed to be executing, 668 00:34:55,592 --> 00:34:56,760 right? 669 00:34:56,793 --> 00:34:58,362 And I had a team of people were supposed to be reporting 670 00:34:58,395 --> 00:35:01,532 telemetry channels to me and we were supposed to move on 671 00:35:01,565 --> 00:35:03,734 and make sure we got the sequence to the end so we 672 00:35:03,767 --> 00:35:06,837 could drive the rover down the ramps the next day. 673 00:35:06,870 --> 00:35:10,441 And I got to the point where I couldn't run 674 00:35:10,474 --> 00:35:14,011 the Mission Support Area and I didn't know who was in there, 675 00:35:14,044 --> 00:35:16,914 and I didn't know what to do except for to say, 676 00:35:16,947 --> 00:35:19,483 "Anybody in the Mission Support Area 677 00:35:19,516 --> 00:35:22,853 who is not on console and not part of the team 678 00:35:22,886 --> 00:35:25,656 who needs to be in here right now needs to leave right now 679 00:35:25,689 --> 00:35:27,191 so we can finish our job." 680 00:35:27,224 --> 00:35:29,627 And it turns out Dan Goldin was one of the people who was 681 00:35:29,660 --> 00:35:31,262 in the Mission Support Area, 682 00:35:31,295 --> 00:35:36,433 and so I kicked him out, and he left. 683 00:35:36,466 --> 00:35:40,337 And we got things under better control so we could finish out 684 00:35:40,370 --> 00:35:41,906 the activities for the day. 685 00:35:41,939 --> 00:35:43,874 For the Sol. 686 00:35:43,907 --> 00:35:46,443 >> You did the right thing. 687 00:35:46,476 --> 00:35:48,212 >> Every other mission went exactly the same way 688 00:35:48,245 --> 00:35:50,047 on landing day, right? 689 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,415 Same experience every time. 690 00:35:51,448 --> 00:35:53,083 >> I think that was one of the great experiences 691 00:35:53,116 --> 00:35:54,185 I had on Pathfinder. 692 00:35:54,218 --> 00:35:56,487 Not just that moment in the MSA, but 693 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,990 I didn't even have a job when I took the job. 694 00:36:00,023 --> 00:36:02,793 So I took the job because I needed a job 695 00:36:02,826 --> 00:36:04,495 and also because it sounded exciting, 696 00:36:04,528 --> 00:36:07,965 and then I didn't really do the job I took. 697 00:36:07,998 --> 00:36:12,403 It was underfunded, lowly funded, and so whatever 698 00:36:12,436 --> 00:36:13,370 you were willing to do... 699 00:36:15,573 --> 00:36:14,805 >> It was correctly funded. 700 00:36:15,606 --> 00:36:17,474 [Laughter] 701 00:36:17,507 --> 00:36:19,610 It was funded such that people could be 702 00:36:19,643 --> 00:36:21,445 innovative and could take ownership 703 00:36:21,478 --> 00:36:24,114 of a whole bunch of stuff. 704 00:36:24,147 --> 00:36:27,651 And so, I was in my twenties, I guess, well, 705 00:36:27,684 --> 00:36:29,486 it's twenty years ago, so I was ten. 706 00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:35,526 No, I was in my twenties and I had nothing better to do 707 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:38,028 except for this and play volleyball on the weekends. 708 00:36:38,061 --> 00:36:39,463 So I was there all the time. 709 00:36:39,496 --> 00:36:42,633 And I will say, the people, right? 710 00:36:42,666 --> 00:36:45,869 I mean that opportunity to be surrounded by a small 711 00:36:45,902 --> 00:36:50,407 but insanely excellent group of people, that I was able to 712 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,246 learn from, has brought me to where I am today. 713 00:36:55,279 --> 00:36:59,850 Because I learned from Rob Manning and Miguel San Martin. 714 00:36:59,883 --> 00:37:01,785 And I know cruise attitude control now, and I know the 715 00:37:01,818 --> 00:37:04,955 surface high gain antenna pointing, and all these things, 716 00:37:04,988 --> 00:37:06,624 but there's a group of people of people. 717 00:37:06,657 --> 00:37:09,093 And so it really was significant, 718 00:37:09,126 --> 00:37:12,997 the way that the structure allowed people to do 719 00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:16,000 as much as they were willing and able to do. 720 00:37:16,033 --> 00:37:19,169 And just learn an incredible amount. 721 00:37:19,202 --> 00:37:21,305 >> I don't think you were prepared as a team 722 00:37:21,338 --> 00:37:23,874 for the public reaction, to this. 723 00:37:23,907 --> 00:37:25,042 >> No. 724 00:37:25,075 --> 00:37:29,680 >> I know you had a very personal public reaction, too, 725 00:37:29,713 --> 00:37:30,781 didn't you? 726 00:37:30,814 --> 00:37:32,616 >> Well I did, and it's interesting because I guess 727 00:37:32,649 --> 00:37:36,553 they played the CNN footage at some of the prisons 728 00:37:36,586 --> 00:37:38,155 around the area. 729 00:37:38,188 --> 00:37:39,389 [laughter] 730 00:37:39,423 --> 00:37:43,994 And so I got letters, and was it Joe Courtney who was the 731 00:37:44,027 --> 00:37:45,129 head of security at the time? 732 00:37:45,162 --> 00:37:46,197 I don't remember. 733 00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:49,033 He would just regularly come in the Building 230 734 00:37:49,066 --> 00:37:50,801 and would deliver me a stack of letters 735 00:37:50,834 --> 00:37:53,203 that were from federal prisoners. 736 00:37:53,236 --> 00:37:55,239 You know, saying that they wanted to go to Mars, 737 00:37:55,272 --> 00:37:56,874 or that it was great what we did. 738 00:37:56,907 --> 00:37:59,610 And one day, I got a letter from a... 739 00:37:59,643 --> 00:38:03,280 Well actually, one day they put an article in Parade magazine 740 00:38:03,313 --> 00:38:06,250 that said what I had done and had a picture of me, 741 00:38:06,283 --> 00:38:09,019 and I got a letter from a lady in Texas 742 00:38:09,052 --> 00:38:11,622 who had seen that article in Parade magazine. 743 00:38:11,655 --> 00:38:13,657 And I put it on the stack of letters 744 00:38:13,690 --> 00:38:15,025 with the federal prisoners. 745 00:38:15,058 --> 00:38:18,595 And the letter said, "I have a son who's in the Air Force, 746 00:38:18,628 --> 00:38:21,765 and if you were ever willing to give him a tour of JPL, 747 00:38:21,798 --> 00:38:24,068 I'm sure he would love to come." 748 00:38:24,101 --> 00:38:25,903 And so I put it in my stack of letters, 749 00:38:25,936 --> 00:38:27,438 and then probably three or four months later, 750 00:38:27,471 --> 00:38:30,174 I had decided to reply to all the letters. 751 00:38:30,207 --> 00:38:31,342 I don't know why I decided to do that. 752 00:38:31,375 --> 00:38:34,044 So I wrote this lady and I said sure, if this guy 753 00:38:34,077 --> 00:38:36,313 from the Air Force wants to come and visit JPL, 754 00:38:36,346 --> 00:38:38,215 I'm happy to give him a tour. 755 00:38:38,248 --> 00:38:42,486 And it turned out that he didn't know his mom had 756 00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:44,788 written the letter, it was clear she was trying to set us up, 757 00:38:44,821 --> 00:38:50,260 but he actually had quite an interest in JPL. 758 00:38:50,293 --> 00:38:53,731 So, he took me up on the offer, came out, he was 759 00:38:53,764 --> 00:38:55,766 looking at going to test pilot school 760 00:38:55,799 --> 00:38:57,201 at Edwards Air Force Base. 761 00:38:57,234 --> 00:39:00,270 He came out, I gave him a tour, and uh... 762 00:39:00,303 --> 00:39:01,805 two years later, we got married. 763 00:39:01,838 --> 00:39:06,377 So no matter what, Pathfinder is my favorite mission. 764 00:39:06,910 --> 00:39:10,314 [laughter and applause] 765 00:39:10,347 --> 00:39:14,385 >> Alright, moving on. 766 00:39:14,418 --> 00:39:16,487 >> You know, Blaine, one thing I wanted to comment on that 767 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,590 Jennifer just touched on, I think one of the great 768 00:39:19,623 --> 00:39:23,394 legacies of Pathfinder and the Mars program is it allowed us 769 00:39:23,427 --> 00:39:26,063 to do engineering the way engineering is done. 770 00:39:26,096 --> 00:39:28,932 Which is have the same people do a mission, 771 00:39:28,965 --> 00:39:31,835 learn what they did right or wrong, and then do another one. 772 00:39:31,868 --> 00:39:33,270 And then do another one. 773 00:39:33,303 --> 00:39:36,140 And a lot of the same people Jennifer mentioned, Rob and 774 00:39:36,173 --> 00:39:38,442 Miguel and Richard Cook, and all of these people 775 00:39:38,475 --> 00:39:41,478 did Spirit and Opportunity, did Curiosity, 776 00:39:41,511 --> 00:39:43,580 some of them are now doing 2020 as well. 777 00:39:43,613 --> 00:39:46,850 It's really an amazing cadre of engineers who spent their 778 00:39:46,883 --> 00:39:48,852 whole career building these Mars missions and building 779 00:39:48,885 --> 00:39:50,954 them the right way, building them successfully. 780 00:39:50,987 --> 00:39:52,823 And that has been something that is really difficult to do 781 00:39:52,856 --> 00:39:54,057 in the agency. 782 00:39:54,090 --> 00:39:55,726 The fact that Mars is relatively close 783 00:39:55,759 --> 00:39:57,294 and you can send missions every 26 months, 784 00:39:57,327 --> 00:40:00,964 it allowed us to really build up a knowledge base 785 00:40:00,997 --> 00:40:04,401 that we really haven't had for any other planet. 786 00:40:04,434 --> 00:40:06,737 And it's been a fantastic experience and I think that's 787 00:40:06,770 --> 00:40:09,373 been a lot of the secret to this success is really that. 788 00:40:09,406 --> 00:40:12,309 It's that ability to learn from mistakes and have the 789 00:40:12,342 --> 00:40:14,778 same people keep doing the work, and not forget it for 20 years, 790 00:40:14,811 --> 00:40:16,980 as Brian said, after Viking. 791 00:40:17,013 --> 00:40:19,349 There was nobody really around from Viking anymore, 792 00:40:19,382 --> 00:40:20,818 but the folks from Curiosity 793 00:40:20,851 --> 00:40:23,020 were the same ones from Pathfinder. 794 00:40:23,253 --> 00:40:26,757 >> You arrived at the lab about the time of Pathfinder, 795 00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:27,591 I think... 796 00:40:27,624 --> 00:40:28,559 >> A few years before. 797 00:40:28,592 --> 00:40:28,959 >> A couple years? 798 00:40:28,992 --> 00:40:30,093 >> Yeah. 799 00:40:30,127 --> 00:40:32,095 >> What kind of importance did Pathfinder have in the 800 00:40:32,128 --> 00:40:34,398 advancement of where we've gone? 801 00:40:34,431 --> 00:40:36,133 >> You know, as I think I mentioned, I think Pathfinder 802 00:40:36,166 --> 00:40:39,303 really taught us two things from the scientific 803 00:40:39,336 --> 00:40:43,040 and from the mission perspective. 804 00:40:43,073 --> 00:40:46,777 I think we really wanted to do these robotic explorers. 805 00:40:46,810 --> 00:40:49,279 Pathfinder was somewhat constrained in how far it 806 00:40:49,312 --> 00:40:52,516 could backpack because of the base station and the way it 807 00:40:52,549 --> 00:40:55,385 was designed, but our other rovers 808 00:40:55,418 --> 00:40:58,922 really were traveling robotic geologists. 809 00:40:58,955 --> 00:41:01,358 And I think that's really a paradigm that we learned, and 810 00:41:01,391 --> 00:41:04,328 Curiosity was the biggest investment that we had, 811 00:41:04,361 --> 00:41:07,764 and we again tried to build on that legacy. 812 00:41:07,797 --> 00:41:10,200 But you go in thinking, "we're going to drive this thing 813 00:41:10,233 --> 00:41:11,735 for two years, and we're going to go to places 814 00:41:11,768 --> 00:41:13,103 we've never seen before," 815 00:41:13,136 --> 00:41:15,172 and that's something that really started with Pathfinder. 816 00:41:15,205 --> 00:41:17,741 Look around sniffing rocks that were as far as you could get, 817 00:41:17,774 --> 00:41:20,377 and Spirit and Opportunity going even farther 818 00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:21,845 and building on that. 819 00:41:21,878 --> 00:41:26,617 And I know from myself, I was not an engineer on Pathfinder, 820 00:41:26,650 --> 00:41:30,454 but being on Curiosity, being able to work with the team 821 00:41:30,487 --> 00:41:33,924 that had been successful on that mission and other missions, 822 00:41:33,957 --> 00:41:35,526 it gives you a lot of confidence. 823 00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:37,995 And you can sit there and go over a lot of things that can 824 00:41:38,028 --> 00:41:40,564 go wrong, you can think through a lot of scenarios, 825 00:41:40,597 --> 00:41:43,066 and it was just a wonderful experience to be able to work 826 00:41:43,099 --> 00:41:45,869 with the team that had that much experience on Mars. 827 00:41:45,902 --> 00:41:48,605 We often went, Jennifer and I worked on Curiosity together, 828 00:41:48,638 --> 00:41:50,908 and we would go back and look, "What did MER do here in 829 00:41:50,941 --> 00:41:53,677 Spirit and Opportunity, what went right, what can we fix?" 830 00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:56,914 Now Jennifer is on 2020 looking at what went right on MSL, 831 00:41:56,947 --> 00:41:59,182 what can we do better, how can we be smarter about 832 00:41:59,215 --> 00:42:01,785 the operations and the engineering. 833 00:42:01,818 --> 00:42:03,921 It's just a great experience. 834 00:42:03,954 --> 00:42:09,693 >> I do these oral histories with folks, the past, present, 835 00:42:09,726 --> 00:42:13,130 and I almost always ask them about "Faster. Better. Cheaper." 836 00:42:13,163 --> 00:42:15,265 Where is the needle? 837 00:42:15,298 --> 00:42:16,400 Where has it gone? 838 00:42:16,433 --> 00:42:18,201 Has it gone too far one way or another? 839 00:42:18,234 --> 00:42:21,271 And it's amazing to me, the number of people who say 840 00:42:21,304 --> 00:42:24,541 we've gone too far away from "Faster. Better. Cheaper." 841 00:42:24,574 --> 00:42:26,710 I hear that all the time. 842 00:42:26,743 --> 00:42:31,081 >> I think the trick is to go back to your processes and 843 00:42:31,114 --> 00:42:35,085 look at what has accreted that is relatively low added value. 844 00:42:35,118 --> 00:42:37,921 So a lot of times, we have process, we have ways of doing 845 00:42:37,954 --> 00:42:42,225 things that have built up due to conservatism 846 00:42:42,258 --> 00:42:46,129 and maybe not direct high-value return. 847 00:42:46,162 --> 00:42:48,432 And we don't always go back and reanalyze those processes. 848 00:42:48,465 --> 00:42:51,068 So I think part of what the whole leadership team is doing 849 00:42:51,101 --> 00:42:54,204 is going back in, looking at the way we do our work, 850 00:42:54,237 --> 00:42:56,473 looking at what can be streamlined, looking at where 851 00:42:56,506 --> 00:42:59,843 technology has advanced to where the failure modes 852 00:42:59,876 --> 00:43:02,112 that we used to have in our electronic parts are no longer 853 00:43:02,145 --> 00:43:05,382 the failure modes you have in modern electronic parts. 854 00:43:05,415 --> 00:43:07,751 And so you can change your process, 855 00:43:07,784 --> 00:43:09,720 you can streamline your processes. 856 00:43:09,753 --> 00:43:13,624 There's a lot of advances in software, autocoding and other 857 00:43:13,657 --> 00:43:17,194 kinds of things you can do with advanced IT and advanced 858 00:43:17,227 --> 00:43:20,030 compilers that reduce error account in software, 859 00:43:20,063 --> 00:43:21,498 so I think we're looking at where 860 00:43:21,531 --> 00:43:23,834 we can take advantage of new technologies 861 00:43:23,867 --> 00:43:27,137 and we're asking our leadership team to go back. 862 00:43:27,170 --> 00:43:30,374 Working with engineers, you guys that in the lab, 863 00:43:30,407 --> 00:43:32,843 you often know a lot of what steps are value added 864 00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:34,077 and not value added, 865 00:43:34,110 --> 00:43:36,380 and we want to make sure that that bubbles up. 866 00:43:36,413 --> 00:43:38,048 And as you heard Brian say, that's a lot of what made 867 00:43:38,081 --> 00:43:40,550 Pathfinder successful, was empowering individual 868 00:43:40,583 --> 00:43:43,387 engineers in their workplace to say, 869 00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:45,422 "This is not the best way to do this. 870 00:43:45,455 --> 00:43:46,990 I know a better way to do this, either because 871 00:43:47,023 --> 00:43:50,093 technology is advanced or because I'm smart, or because 872 00:43:50,126 --> 00:43:52,262 I've just sat here for 10 hours working on this thing 873 00:43:52,295 --> 00:43:54,965 and I know what I'm doing in a single shift." 874 00:43:54,998 --> 00:43:56,633 And we're trying to make sure that we get that empowerment 875 00:43:56,666 --> 00:43:57,768 down to the lowest levels, 876 00:43:57,801 --> 00:44:00,003 by working with the line organizations. 877 00:44:00,036 --> 00:44:02,272 I think what would also help us is 878 00:44:02,305 --> 00:44:05,008 alignment with headquarters, with the agency. 879 00:44:05,041 --> 00:44:08,545 There are times at which the agency strongly advocates 880 00:44:08,578 --> 00:44:11,181 technology demos, Class D and Class C work, 881 00:44:11,214 --> 00:44:12,983 and there's other times when they don't. 882 00:44:13,016 --> 00:44:16,319 So Cassini for example, is Class A mission, and Mars 2020. 883 00:44:16,352 --> 00:44:18,855 These are missions that the risk is 884 00:44:18,888 --> 00:44:21,091 intended to be driven fairly low. 885 00:44:21,124 --> 00:44:22,793 But there are other times where the agency can 886 00:44:22,826 --> 00:44:26,129 incentivize taking chances and can incentivize streamlined 887 00:44:26,162 --> 00:44:28,565 processes, as they did with Pathfinder. 888 00:44:28,598 --> 00:44:30,033 And we're actually starting to see 889 00:44:30,066 --> 00:44:31,902 more of those missions coming. 890 00:44:31,935 --> 00:44:34,838 Charles Elachi mentioned the helicopter, that's a tech demo. 891 00:44:34,871 --> 00:44:38,075 It has very few or almost no scientific requirements, 892 00:44:38,108 --> 00:44:38,976 very few requirements on it. 893 00:44:39,009 --> 00:44:40,911 It just has to get there, and take off, 894 00:44:40,944 --> 00:44:42,612 and fly around on Mars, and land. 895 00:44:42,645 --> 00:44:44,181 And do that a few times. 896 00:44:44,214 --> 00:44:45,182 It doesn't have to execute 897 00:44:45,215 --> 00:44:47,084 a vastly complicated science mission. 898 00:44:47,117 --> 00:44:50,020 So the helicopter's a good example, there's a deep space 899 00:44:50,053 --> 00:44:53,623 optical comm technology demo on Psyche, there's a number of 900 00:44:53,656 --> 00:44:56,960 these areas where the agency is asking us to push the envelope 901 00:44:56,993 --> 00:44:59,362 with Class D and we like those. 902 00:44:59,395 --> 00:45:02,165 And I think that's a great opportunity for folks to take 903 00:45:02,198 --> 00:45:04,034 a swing through a mission like that, or an instrument like 904 00:45:04,067 --> 00:45:05,569 that, and also take a swing through 905 00:45:05,602 --> 00:45:07,471 the more conservative missions. 906 00:45:07,504 --> 00:45:10,974 And that way you can kind of see how the pointer can be set, 907 00:45:11,007 --> 00:45:12,542 as Blaine was saying. 908 00:45:12,575 --> 00:45:14,377 In this kind of mission it needs to be set here, 909 00:45:14,410 --> 00:45:16,246 and here I can take chances. 910 00:45:16,579 --> 00:45:19,149 >> You know I've been on MSL and Mars 2020 and now to 911 00:45:19,182 --> 00:45:22,219 go back and talk about Pathfinder these last few weeks 912 00:45:22,252 --> 00:45:24,688 has reminded me of things, 913 00:45:24,721 --> 00:45:27,557 and its reminded me that we can create 914 00:45:27,590 --> 00:45:30,961 culture by the way we make our choices, right? 915 00:45:30,994 --> 00:45:34,064 Whether you're on a big project or you're on a small project, 916 00:45:34,097 --> 00:45:36,299 you focus on the content. 917 00:45:36,332 --> 00:45:39,336 You focus on being excellent at the technical work, 918 00:45:39,369 --> 00:45:42,873 you focus on questioning things that don't make sense to you, 919 00:45:42,906 --> 00:45:45,175 you focus on throwing out process. 920 00:45:45,208 --> 00:45:47,611 And I actually told Richard, I said, "You know I am 921 00:45:47,644 --> 00:45:50,647 re-invigorated to completely ignore my management." 922 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,749 [laughter] 923 00:45:52,782 --> 00:45:54,184 >> Of which you are the management now. 924 00:45:54,217 --> 00:45:57,621 >> Of which I am the management. 925 00:45:57,654 --> 00:46:03,026 But especially to the younger folks who didn't have the 926 00:46:03,059 --> 00:46:07,697 Pathfinder opportunity, I think you can create that opportunity 927 00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:12,669 by being excellent technically and questioning. 928 00:46:12,702 --> 00:46:14,571 This place loves that. 929 00:46:14,604 --> 00:46:17,541 I think it can come from the bottom, from the top, 930 00:46:17,574 --> 00:46:19,776 from the side, but it comes from the people 931 00:46:19,809 --> 00:46:22,345 and what you do every day. 932 00:46:22,378 --> 00:46:27,250 >> I think of Charles, you often times use that phrase from 933 00:46:27,283 --> 00:46:29,719 Teddy Roosevelt: Dare Mighty Things, 934 00:46:29,752 --> 00:46:33,723 and part of what Pathfinder put in motion 935 00:46:33,756 --> 00:46:37,194 was the daring of audacious things, 936 00:46:37,227 --> 00:46:41,398 and Curiosity being a very audacious thing to do, 937 00:46:41,431 --> 00:46:44,768 as well, as a mighty thing. 938 00:46:44,801 --> 00:46:48,538 >> You know, every explorer, they have to dare mighty things 939 00:46:48,571 --> 00:46:50,340 if they want to push the limit. 940 00:46:50,373 --> 00:46:52,542 And that's why I like that quote from Teddy Roosevelt 941 00:46:52,575 --> 00:46:55,078 and matter of fact the first time 942 00:46:55,111 --> 00:46:57,848 it was quoted here at JPL, Dan remember, 943 00:46:57,881 --> 00:47:00,584 when I was appointed as the JPL Director, 944 00:47:00,617 --> 00:47:03,386 he delayed that announcement by a day 945 00:47:03,419 --> 00:47:05,488 because he wanted to be physically here. 946 00:47:05,521 --> 00:47:09,326 I remember, so he came and he looked at all the employees 947 00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:11,761 and looked at me, and he quoted Teddy Roosevelt 948 00:47:11,794 --> 00:47:13,630 about daring mighty things. 949 00:47:13,663 --> 00:47:16,099 And now you see it all over lab 950 00:47:16,132 --> 00:47:17,534 because you need to to that. 951 00:47:17,567 --> 00:47:20,337 I mean, in our business, if you don't dare mighty things, 952 00:47:20,370 --> 00:47:22,172 if you say "this is too difficult," 953 00:47:22,205 --> 00:47:24,007 you have given up. 954 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,743 But as long as you really try hard to make it happen, 955 00:47:26,776 --> 00:47:29,246 then every explorer encounters that. 956 00:47:29,279 --> 00:47:30,213 Not only us. 957 00:47:30,246 --> 00:47:31,748 And Pathfinder, that's one example, 958 00:47:31,781 --> 00:47:34,718 where people dared mighty things. 959 00:47:34,751 --> 00:47:37,387 One thing I thought Brian would be mentioning, 960 00:47:37,420 --> 00:47:39,055 there was another challenge above 961 00:47:39,088 --> 00:47:40,957 and beyond the technical challenge. 962 00:47:40,990 --> 00:47:43,460 Is how to streamline the implementation. 963 00:47:43,493 --> 00:47:46,029 Remember, we were at a time where we were doing the big 964 00:47:46,062 --> 00:47:49,532 spacecraft, and all kind of processes and reviews. 965 00:47:49,565 --> 00:47:52,469 And, a matter of fact some of you noticed in the video 966 00:47:52,502 --> 00:47:54,537 when Dan was talking there was a bunch of books 967 00:47:54,570 --> 00:47:56,172 sitting next to him. 968 00:47:56,205 --> 00:47:58,575 He was giving that as an example of what would it take 969 00:47:58,608 --> 00:48:01,645 to write a proposal. 970 00:48:01,678 --> 00:48:04,281 When I was a young investigator, 971 00:48:04,314 --> 00:48:06,850 my proposal used to be like 10 pages, 972 00:48:06,883 --> 00:48:09,085 that was in the early '80s. 973 00:48:09,118 --> 00:48:11,087 And one of the challenges the team had, 974 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,291 and Tony and Brian and their team, 975 00:48:14,324 --> 00:48:16,059 was able to at least to work on streamlining 976 00:48:16,092 --> 00:48:18,628 the processes and that required a lot of support. 977 00:48:18,661 --> 00:48:21,531 Because there were a lot of antibodies about that. 978 00:48:21,564 --> 00:48:26,303 >> We created a skunk works within the JPL organization. 979 00:48:26,336 --> 00:48:29,839 But more than anything, the thing that made us successful 980 00:48:29,872 --> 00:48:32,676 I think was the fact that we trusted each other. 981 00:48:32,709 --> 00:48:35,812 We trusted the individuals for their skill, their ability. 982 00:48:35,845 --> 00:48:40,951 We did not do a lot of paper, a lot of process, and we 983 00:48:40,984 --> 00:48:44,821 concurrently engineered the system as we went along. 984 00:48:44,854 --> 00:48:47,590 And then, we depended very much on a 985 00:48:47,623 --> 00:48:50,060 process of rapid decision-making. 986 00:48:50,093 --> 00:48:52,862 So when something went wrong, when there was a problem, 987 00:48:52,895 --> 00:48:55,065 I could bring together just a handful of people. 988 00:48:55,098 --> 00:48:58,268 And in a matter of minutes to hours maybe a few days 989 00:48:58,301 --> 00:49:01,905 we could understand the problem and we could put a solution 990 00:49:01,938 --> 00:49:03,606 in place and we'd go execute it. 991 00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:05,742 I mean, sometimes, and our big projects today, 992 00:49:05,775 --> 00:49:09,446 it could take weeks to months to make those kind of changes. 993 00:49:09,479 --> 00:49:13,249 But the relationships that were built- 994 00:49:13,282 --> 00:49:15,852 The definition of a high-performance team 995 00:49:15,885 --> 00:49:20,090 from Katzenback and Smith was "a team that is personally 996 00:49:20,123 --> 00:49:22,726 committed to each other's success." 997 00:49:22,759 --> 00:49:24,394 And I think we had that. 998 00:49:24,427 --> 00:49:27,063 >> So that was another "daring mighty things" 999 00:49:27,096 --> 00:49:29,265 but in a different aspect. 1000 00:49:29,298 --> 00:49:31,201 >> The interesting part of that, is that we talked about 1001 00:49:31,234 --> 00:49:32,869 the scientific, the programmatic legacy, 1002 00:49:32,902 --> 00:49:34,137 the people at legacy of Pathfinder, 1003 00:49:34,170 --> 00:49:36,072 all of which were fantastically successful. 1004 00:49:36,105 --> 00:49:38,742 I think we still, you'll get a kick out of this, Dan and 1005 00:49:38,775 --> 00:49:42,379 Brian knows this more than anyone, we struggled to retain 1006 00:49:42,412 --> 00:49:44,514 that streamlined sense of innovation, because the 1007 00:49:44,547 --> 00:49:47,517 natural tendency is to then become more conservative, make 1008 00:49:47,550 --> 00:49:49,886 the next one bigger and better, and make it work. 1009 00:49:49,919 --> 00:49:52,522 And I think the breath of fresh air that Pathfinder was 1010 00:49:52,555 --> 00:49:54,924 is something that's still needed because we become 1011 00:49:54,957 --> 00:49:57,494 more and more risk averse as an agency. 1012 00:49:57,527 --> 00:50:01,197 >> I think you're absolutely spot on. 1013 00:50:01,230 --> 00:50:03,133 I really challenge all of you 1014 00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:06,002 to listen to what your director said 1015 00:50:06,035 --> 00:50:10,073 and don't keep doing things because they're safe. 1016 00:50:10,106 --> 00:50:14,244 You have to lead in technology and science. 1017 00:50:14,277 --> 00:50:17,380 Don't get complacent with success. 1018 00:50:17,413 --> 00:50:21,051 Always be nervous and always push the limits. 1019 00:50:21,084 --> 00:50:24,354 >> Dan, as usual you get the last word, 1020 00:50:24,387 --> 00:50:26,089 [laughter] 1021 00:50:26,122 --> 00:50:30,260 and I want to thank all of the panelists for being here. 1022 00:50:30,293 --> 00:50:33,063 It's been a very interesting hour of discussion 1023 00:50:33,096 --> 00:50:38,802 and we are going to close out by reflecting with a video on 1024 00:50:38,835 --> 00:50:42,105 what is happened in the last 20 years at Mars. 1025 00:50:42,138 --> 00:50:43,606 It's very impressive. 1026 00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:45,608 Thank you all for coming. 1027 00:50:45,641 --> 00:50:47,577 [Applause] 1028 00:50:51,981 --> 00:50:53,250 [Whoosh] 1029 00:50:54,484 --> 00:50:57,654 [Poof] 1030 00:50:57,687 --> 00:50:58,922 >> Roger that. 1031 00:50:58,955 --> 00:51:00,757 >> Okay we got a good strong signal now. 1032 00:51:00,790 --> 00:51:04,394 [Cheers] 1033 00:51:04,427 --> 00:51:05,195 [Clapping] 1034 00:51:05,228 --> 00:51:06,629 >> Woo! 1035 00:51:06,662 --> 00:51:10,901 [Cheering and clapping] 1036 00:51:32,455 --> 00:51:33,990 [Rockets] 1037 00:51:43,733 --> 00:51:44,801 [bang] 1038 00:51:49,939 --> 00:51:51,208 [Whoosh] 1039 00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:53,810 [Poof] 1040 00:51:55,811 --> 00:51:57,214 [Boom] 1041 00:51:57,513 --> 00:51:58,348 >> Stand by. 1042 00:51:58,448 --> 00:51:59,816 >> The rover has landed base-petal down. 1043 00:51:59,849 --> 00:52:01,384 Which means, right side up. 1044 00:52:01,417 --> 00:52:04,354 [cheers and clapping] 1045 00:52:26,042 --> 00:52:27,410 [metallic clanking] 1046 00:52:27,743 --> 00:52:28,511 >> 60 meters. 1047 00:52:28,544 --> 00:52:29,679 >> Come on! 1048 00:52:31,447 --> 00:52:32,415 >> 30 meters! 1049 00:52:32,615 --> 00:52:35,485 [Rockets] 1050 00:52:35,885 --> 00:52:37,053 27 meters. 1051 00:52:37,086 --> 00:52:37,420 [Rockets] 1052 00:52:37,453 --> 00:52:38,388 20 meters. 1053 00:52:38,421 --> 00:52:39,956 15 meters. Standing by for touchdown. 1054 00:52:39,989 --> 00:52:41,457 [rockets] 1055 00:52:41,490 --> 00:52:41,824 [impact] 1056 00:52:41,857 --> 00:52:46,062 [cheering] 1057 00:53:01,811 --> 00:53:04,781 [rockets] 1058 00:53:09,285 --> 00:53:10,353 >> Touchdown confirmed! 1059 00:53:10,386 --> 00:53:11,421 We're safe on Mars! 1060 00:53:11,454 --> 00:53:12,855 [cheers] 1061 00:53:12,888 --> 00:53:14,757 >> Woo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo! 1062 00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:16,893 [cheers] 1063 00:53:16,926 --> 00:53:18,428 [clapping] 1064 00:53:18,461 --> 00:53:20,496 >> Time to see where our Curiosity will take us. 1065 00:53:20,529 --> 00:53:24,868 [cheering and clapping]